Yet again, Bear, you say exactly what I am thinking ...! and have done for a few years now. It was one of the first examples, I think, of a symbol being appropriated by a group to which I don't subscribe to represent their specific views - thus making me resentful of the whole poppy 'thing'. Looking forward to any response I get to my 'share' of the article on Facebook ...
I feel, though, that progressives retreating from symbols whenever the right co-opts them is ultimately a losing strategy. It just leads to a gradual takeover of the entire culture while progressives are sitting in their own little subculture.
We should contest the meaning of those symbols! For all the flak Keir Starmer gets, he is absolutely right in his attempt to reset the meaning of the British flag. And poppies I think work similarly.
Personally I'm really woke and happy to own it. Worked down in the weeds of society for most of my life and the older I've got the less tolerant of the right and their cruelty and complaining I have become.
I wear one of those nice discrete metal poppies that pin to a lapel.
Playing devil's advocate here, are Dresden Bomber crews included in the 'pride' aspect of the poppy fixation? Or is just following orders enough? When can we move on from world war Pageantry into a more Peace oriented political landscape?
In my main reply I felt I made my overall view clear. Those Germans and the Italian died whilst. blitzing the centre of Exeter.
I've replied on other threads here and on Bsky that there is something hard wired into the human psyche and as long as there is the likes of Putin, Xi and Bibi amongst others the chances of enduring peace are pretty limited.
I don't know if you are aware of the works of the painter Thomas Cole. He produced a series of five paintings entitled Course of Empire. Saw them at the National Gallery a few years ago. Salutary. Where are we now?
Honestly I think that insane poppy fascism is one of those things that's quite easy to laugh at. If the poppy itself is no longer unifying, then maybe the fact we can all laugh at the absurdity of Cookie Monster being forced to wear the mandatory poppy for an appearance on The One Show.
The whole poppy symbology escaped me for years as my first job in London was at a Spanish organisation with only a British colleague who wasn't the best at explaining key tenets of British life. Then I moved to my current job, which is very international and few people actually wear a poppy when the time comes. This includes British colleagues as well. However, we do observe a minute of silence on 11/11.
As you said, there's been an appropriation in recent years of what it started as a noble exercise to remember the consequences of war and honour those who have fought in them to preserve people's freedom into a purity contest where everyone gets scrutinised if they fail to exhibit external markers of support.
One may be studying history, trying to understand parallellisms between the past and today, the reasons that lead to conflict, especially the rise of populism and the manipulation of the public opinion, etc all year round in order to be well informed and avoid repeating the mistakes of the past but that amounts to nothing if you don't have a poppy in your lapel for a few days.
Anyway, well done you for supporting this in a way that is meaningful for you, which at the end of the day is what most of us do.
Brilliant article Bear. Actually, the ‘Poppy Rage’ is yet another Right Wing stick to beat people with. Instead of the State properly funding veterans services and support; they are forced to rely on charity. Because rich people don’t pay taxes, so they force poor people to donate by guilt, nostalgia and pseudo-patriotism. Yeah, I know, I sound like a broken drum, but seriously this country is not being run for the benefit of the people who live here, rather the rich who squat in it and keep their money in off-shore tax havens.
Most young people dragged (sorry, enlisted) off to war do not give up their lives for the cause (however righteous) They go with the vibrant energy of youth in the belief that somehow they will survive.
What always got me on the poppy charity thing was why wasn’t the society that ‘benefited’ from their ‘sacrifice’ not looking after the survivors properly?
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
Those who think they are above others do performative acts. Those of us with a little humility reflect on the message, and do so quietly and in our own way.
I have two enamel poppies one with my capbadge in it and the other with the RNLI crest in it. I put a couple of pound in the RBL collection tin and keep walking. Rememberance is personal and I'm not offended if people don't wear one or if they wear one of whatever colour they choose.
You'll find the one's making the most noise about this are probably the one's that haven't served but feel the right to be offended on my behalf.
Well said, it's annoyed me for some years now how it's all become performative - which makes me rebel by deliberately choosing not to wear one! As a child in the 1950s I wanted to know why people sold poppies in November, and my parents explained that you weren't really buying one, but it was a token of thanks for your contribution to the charity that supported ex-service men & women. At that time it was less than 40 yrs since the end of WWI, so a lot less distant than today, and helped me learn about the history of wars. Actually wearing the poppy was considered optional. I wonder how many people today with their performative poppies really consider the importance of their charity contribution (if indeed they made one) relative to their self-satisfaction at conforming?
For me, it's less about "less we forget" and more about "because we have forgotten" and "never again" is a load of bollocks, it never stopped.😥
*Applause
Well said.
Yet again, Bear, you say exactly what I am thinking ...! and have done for a few years now. It was one of the first examples, I think, of a symbol being appropriated by a group to which I don't subscribe to represent their specific views - thus making me resentful of the whole poppy 'thing'. Looking forward to any response I get to my 'share' of the article on Facebook ...
I feel, though, that progressives retreating from symbols whenever the right co-opts them is ultimately a losing strategy. It just leads to a gradual takeover of the entire culture while progressives are sitting in their own little subculture.
We should contest the meaning of those symbols! For all the flak Keir Starmer gets, he is absolutely right in his attempt to reset the meaning of the British flag. And poppies I think work similarly.
Don't agree Alex - allowing symbols to short circuit honest discussions is what the far right loves best. Check the history books.
Personally I'm really woke and happy to own it. Worked down in the weeds of society for most of my life and the older I've got the less tolerant of the right and their cruelty and complaining I have become.
I wear one of those nice discrete metal poppies that pin to a lapel.
Playing devil's advocate here, are Dresden Bomber crews included in the 'pride' aspect of the poppy fixation? Or is just following orders enough? When can we move on from world war Pageantry into a more Peace oriented political landscape?
I suggest you read my reply direct to Bear.
Yes I did do Kane, was just sharing my poppy season thoughts globally, no offence intended.
None taken Baz.
In my main reply I felt I made my overall view clear. Those Germans and the Italian died whilst. blitzing the centre of Exeter.
I've replied on other threads here and on Bsky that there is something hard wired into the human psyche and as long as there is the likes of Putin, Xi and Bibi amongst others the chances of enduring peace are pretty limited.
I don't know if you are aware of the works of the painter Thomas Cole. He produced a series of five paintings entitled Course of Empire. Saw them at the National Gallery a few years ago. Salutary. Where are we now?
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Course_of_Empire_-_Thomas_Cole_GIF_slow.gif#/media/File:The_Course_of_Empire_-_Thomas_Cole_GIF_slow.gif
Just coming on here to say the same thing !
Red Poppy is now a fashion statement, I like poppies and have some earrings from B Legion stall
I wear white, really irritates a lot of people.
I slso recommend reading rest of 'Flanders Field' no mention of peace.
Visit Ieper, attend Menin Gate ceremony
I think you’re right and also agree that it is a personal decision.
Honestly I think that insane poppy fascism is one of those things that's quite easy to laugh at. If the poppy itself is no longer unifying, then maybe the fact we can all laugh at the absurdity of Cookie Monster being forced to wear the mandatory poppy for an appearance on The One Show.
The whole poppy symbology escaped me for years as my first job in London was at a Spanish organisation with only a British colleague who wasn't the best at explaining key tenets of British life. Then I moved to my current job, which is very international and few people actually wear a poppy when the time comes. This includes British colleagues as well. However, we do observe a minute of silence on 11/11.
As you said, there's been an appropriation in recent years of what it started as a noble exercise to remember the consequences of war and honour those who have fought in them to preserve people's freedom into a purity contest where everyone gets scrutinised if they fail to exhibit external markers of support.
One may be studying history, trying to understand parallellisms between the past and today, the reasons that lead to conflict, especially the rise of populism and the manipulation of the public opinion, etc all year round in order to be well informed and avoid repeating the mistakes of the past but that amounts to nothing if you don't have a poppy in your lapel for a few days.
Anyway, well done you for supporting this in a way that is meaningful for you, which at the end of the day is what most of us do.
Brilliant article Bear. Actually, the ‘Poppy Rage’ is yet another Right Wing stick to beat people with. Instead of the State properly funding veterans services and support; they are forced to rely on charity. Because rich people don’t pay taxes, so they force poor people to donate by guilt, nostalgia and pseudo-patriotism. Yeah, I know, I sound like a broken drum, but seriously this country is not being run for the benefit of the people who live here, rather the rich who squat in it and keep their money in off-shore tax havens.
And let’s not forget the poppy was first promoted by a French woman.
As always, you've hit the nail right on the head and expressed in a factual yet entertaining way exactly what I would like to be able to! 🥰
Spot on as ever!
Absolutely.
Most young people dragged (sorry, enlisted) off to war do not give up their lives for the cause (however righteous) They go with the vibrant energy of youth in the belief that somehow they will survive.
What always got me on the poppy charity thing was why wasn’t the society that ‘benefited’ from their ‘sacrifice’ not looking after the survivors properly?
Are those who shout about not wearing a poppy being disrespectful also those who decry virtue signalling? Can’t have it both ways.
It also reminds me of a passage in the New Testament from Luke 18:
9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”
Those who think they are above others do performative acts. Those of us with a little humility reflect on the message, and do so quietly and in our own way.
I have two enamel poppies one with my capbadge in it and the other with the RNLI crest in it. I put a couple of pound in the RBL collection tin and keep walking. Rememberance is personal and I'm not offended if people don't wear one or if they wear one of whatever colour they choose.
You'll find the one's making the most noise about this are probably the one's that haven't served but feel the right to be offended on my behalf.
Well said, it's annoyed me for some years now how it's all become performative - which makes me rebel by deliberately choosing not to wear one! As a child in the 1950s I wanted to know why people sold poppies in November, and my parents explained that you weren't really buying one, but it was a token of thanks for your contribution to the charity that supported ex-service men & women. At that time it was less than 40 yrs since the end of WWI, so a lot less distant than today, and helped me learn about the history of wars. Actually wearing the poppy was considered optional. I wonder how many people today with their performative poppies really consider the importance of their charity contribution (if indeed they made one) relative to their self-satisfaction at conforming?
Every word of it, Bear. Every word.
Like you, I don't hail from these shores, but I come from a military family, and my great uncle was a bona fide war hero.
However - the poppy has gone the same way of the flag, and so no, I won't be wearing one (monies will be donated instead).
Incidentally, in case you are wondering - still reading, but dealing with some fairly heavy stuff IRL, so not as present.